What motivated you to write this oral history of Trees Lounge?
Trees Lounge had such a great impact on me that, for its 30th anniversary, I wanted to honor the film. For Trees Lounge: Behind the Bar, I got to do that by talking to 20 people who made it happen! I had the honor to bring together the stories of the people behind a film that had such a profound impact on my life. I wouldn’t call myself a historian, but I believe in documenting and preserving the sacredness of people's experiences.
How did you find Trees Lounge?
I saw it for rent at Blockbuster as a teenager and didn't know anything about it. EXCEPT, of course, that Steve Buscemi was on the cover. I had a VHS player in my room, so I could watch it by myself. I was excited that Busecmi was the star and that he wrote and directed it. In addition to it just being so beautifully shot, what really pulled me in was seeing representation of addiction on screen, which mirrored the addiction in my family system. Also seeing a high school-aged girl in a complicated relationship with an older man, a father figure, completely mirrored what was going on in my life at the time.
Why did you watch it again and again?
It really spoke to me and provided a lot of comfort in being able to seeing experience at home that no one was talking about. Addiction was all around me, but no one was talking about it. The movie painted it in a raw, honest, and vulnerable way. It was comforting, familiar, and familial to see it, and it made me feel like I wasn’t the only one. It was comforting to see this kind of tomboyish girl on her journey to find a father. My whole childhood, I was also looking for available, loving, and understanding fathers. I also liked how it felt like a snapshot of real people’s lives. It was a true representation of a certain community in a certain moment in time. Artistically, I really loved that. I was a nerdy film kid. So on that level, I loved it too.
Which character do you feel the most connected with and why?
Oh, for sure Debbie (Chloë Sevigny). When I saw the movie, I started to try to dress like her. I felt deeply connected to her character. I like that she was not afraid to use humor and be honest with these older men in her life. I like that she let herself flirt.
What do you think about what happens with Debbie and Tommy?
In the writing, there's no judgment about this relationship. Obviously there are consequences to Tommy’s and Debbie’s choices, but in the writing there are no judgments. We, the viewers, are putting the judgment on it. These are real relationships that happen all the time, and they're not so clear-cut. YES, there are plenty of pedophiles, gross, disgusting men chasing young girls. But Tommy and Debbie’s relationship is much more complicated. He is part of her family; there’s something very safe about him; he’s familiar. I don't think it was his intention to seek out Debbie to hook up. His goal was connection. And in his addiction, he went about it ineffectively and inappropriately. Buscemi’s writing doesn't judge what's happening between them, but it also doesn’t co-sign Tommy’s bulllshit either. Buscemi struck a gorgeous balance.
What’s a cool behind-the-scenes story you learned in all your interviews?
SO MANY. You gotta get the book to read them all.
One that sticks with me is the way Buscemi navigated his directorial debut by having to make artistic choices on a budget and on the fly. When they finally found the Assembly Bar to use for filming the lounge (more about scouting and that process is in the book too), there were two apartments above the bar. Buscemi rewrote the script to show Tommy putting Bill to bed upstairs. It added dimension to Tommy’s character, and I think it helped audiences continue rooting for him despite his ongoing bad behavior. I’m pretty sure that story of rewriting the script, has never been publicly told before.
Also, Buscemi shared with me what he was going through behind the scenes. I mean, he’s filming an entire movie on location in just 24 days. This is the first film he's ever directed. Just imagine that! He told me how anxious he was and worried he was letting everybody down. Oh, also I learned where the infamous bar trick came from. You have to get the book for that one!
Talk about ambiguity in the film.
Well, I got the actual story of how the multiple film endings may or may not have happened based on pressures from funders to make Tommy’s story more hopeful. Again, you have to buy the book to hear the never-before-told stories on that one.
But I will say generally that real life is ambiguous. We don't always get a tied-up bow at the end. And addiction certainly doesn't give you that. Relationships are sticky, and they don't give you that either.
A real piece of art opens exciting interpretive conversations after you leave the experience. The legacy of the movie is: What do you think happens to Tommy? What do you think happens to Deb? Does she go to New York? Does that kid ever get ice cream? It makes the viewer dive into our own biases or wishes. It doesn’t force a narrative down our throats.
What would it be like if this movie was made now?
I don’t think Trees Lounge could be made today. It's too honest and real. The pacing is too slow for today’s audiences. It’s character-driven and shot on actual film. Movies like this today are very few and far between. It's real humans doing real things, having real dialogue. Bianca Hunter, who plays Kelly in the film so brilliantly, told me, “It’s how people really talk, and it’s able to hold up without people saying those witty, sassy Hollywood lines before they walk away from someone.” WORD.
I asked everyone I interviewed for the book why they think this movie holds up 30 years later, and Kevin Corrigan, who plays Matthew, said: “because it has no cell phones in it.” It made me laugh when he said it, but he’s right. It’s both why it could never be made now, and also why it’s so powerful and real. It’s from a different time when people actually talked to each other and had attention spans. In order enter into the Trees world, you have to be willing to put down your fucking phone.
Why does the movie hold up 30 years later?
I actually think it might be a perfect movie. I know, the word perfect is problematic. But what I mean is that it’s one of those movies that every time I watch it, I see something different in it. When I watched it the other night, I heard a line that I never heard before, and I’ve seen this movie hundreds of times. It’s like Twin Peaks that way. I can keep going back to it again and again. Each time I find something new or think about something in a new way. Like Twin Peaks it delves into that darkness, that grittiness, that realness, that strangeness, the shadow sides of things that people don't want to talk about.
In my book, I interviewed David Chase (creator of The Sopranos), who reflected on this question:“Why is Trees Lounge so moving? Because it’s good. That’s it. That’s the answer. It’s good. It’s not full of shit.” I just love that. To watch this movie is to go into Tommy's world of desperation, loneliness, and addiction. That’s relatable! We have all been down and out in some way. We have all been lonely. We have all longed for connection and to be understood. To have a purpose in life. Carol Kane told me, “I think some people are like those characters, still wandering around lost in Trees Lounge. So the film won’t ever put itself out of date because it isn’t dated.” It’s true, Trees is always here, somewhere. It’s timeless that way.
Where can we order Trees Lounge: Behind the Bar?
From BearManor Media or Amazon. Follow me on socials @emsmarinelli.